Dominion Vs Thunderstone - Fight!

Someone asked and I responded. Here is my take on the question of Dominion versus Thunderstone. Enjoy.

Friends (and podcast listeners of old) know that I was not a fan of Dominion. It didn't hit Fluxx/Talisman levels, but it was not very high up on the chart for me. I was introduced to Thunderstone rather recently have found it to be quite an entertaining game. Light and flavorful, which made it in some ways the anti-Dominion.

The key problem with Dominion to me is that victory can be acheived with the base gold and vpn cards. Picking up any other card had better speed up your buying power, or slow down your opponents. And grabbing more than 4 of the non-gold/vp cards for your deck usually spells trouble.

So in the setup of a Dominion game ten piles of extra cards are laid out and often half will be untouched in the course of the game. One could possibly lay out a formula for what cards to take when, but it's still a risk versus going the gold/province route.

1. Buy a Province, if not
2. Buy a Gold, if not
3. Buy a Silver, if not
4. Pass

Sure, there are strategies with other cards, like the Chapel - kill entire deck down to two silvers and a chapel, then build up fast and buy lots of provinces - but even then it is bad form to buy more than a few action cards.

Dominion rewards the player who looks at the ten starting cards, analyses whether any of the cards are useful, then plays robotically until the game ends. Not a lot of choice toward optimal play.

And yes, the flavor of the game is horrible. Yay, I bought a [money card]. Yay, I bought a VP card. Yay, I shot my fun gland right off!

Dominion plays quickly (faster on the computer) with lots of choices when the game first enters a person's gaming world. But once the basic rule of buying is learned, it quickly loses it's luster.

Thunderstone is, in my opinion, more entertaining because there is not a basic formula for winning. The main VPs are obtained by killing monsters from the dungeon stack. This stack is built using three of the eight monster types in the base game. Each monster type is themed (Undead spirits, Oozes, Dragons, etc) and has different gameplay ramifications. Oozes are resistant to different types of atach, undead of give diseases, and on. So the victory needs change with each game.

Then basic attack cards are the heroes, and are randomly selected from 4 of the 12 heroes in the base set. These cards can upgrade over the course of the game and have a diverse selection of powers related to the various clasess of D&D - fighter, wizard, etc. This effectly combines Gold and Actions from Dominion into one card in Thunderstone.

Finally, there are the Village cards, which are similar to the basic action cards. The game pulls 8 random cards out of the 20 base set cards. The bigger difference is that it feels like the players need to acquire more of these cards to win instead of Dominions "buy 4 max, if you must" mentality. And when an "action" card is a Flaming Sword, Fireball or a Flask of Oil - gain one Light or destroy to gain 2 Light and +2 attack - that adds more entertainment to me.

A turn comparison:
Dominion - Gold, Copper, Silver, Estate, Village - play village, draw a silver, buy Province into my deck, and go.

Thunderstone - Milita, Amazon, Dagger, Torch, Cleric, Fireball - go into the dungeon, attack the Undead Doomknight, I give the dagger to the Amazon, and have three sources of light, and a total of 8 attack, which is enough to take it out, except the Doomknight kills All Milita, so I'm at 7 attack, still enough to kill it. Take the Doomknight into my deck, grab 2 XP for later and go.
or
Thunderstone - Cleric, Torch, Disease, Iron Ration, Dagger, Doomknight - can't kill anything in the dungeon, so go to the village and buy a Short Sword and level up my Cleric, go.
or
Thunderstone - Disease, Disease, Militia, Doomknight, Dagger - destroy a disease card, go.

This kind of magnifies the speed of Dominion, but shows the flavor of Thunderstone.

Thunderstone needs expansions to really shine, as it suffers the same problems as Dominion when it comes to card repetition. But like Dominion is already has a couple of expansions with another coming out soon.

Both games have limited player interaction, but in Thunderstone you end up rooting on the other players to kill the monsters - or at least I do - because it is action happening. And sometimes the other players cards will impact your hand - giving disease cards (they're like curses) or reducing your hand size, similiar to cards like Minion and Witch in Dominion.

However, Thunderstone usually leaves that kind of activity to the monsters, who will also impact more than the active player from time to time.

On the flip side, Thunderstone takes longer to play and feels more random than Dominion, which hurts it from the perspective of a fast playing game. Also, the card frames of Thunderstone are not sufficiently different when it comes to sorting the cards out after a game has finished.

An extra splash of color on the cards beyond the art would be nice. Apparently, AEG is reusing art assets (ala Spellfire) but would it really be upsetting if they did an L5R themed expansion of Thunderstone?

Also, in terms of expansion, Thunderstone feels to have a little more design space than Dominion. Prosperity adds the Platinum and Colony (?) cards, while Seaside added the additional boards for Native Village and Pirates, but they a little trapped with a vast amount of options for those 10 slots.

Thunderstone has the Monster/Dungeon area - to which they have added traps and treasures already. Heroes can be increased - although I suspect this will be more difficult to develop. And the Village cards have the usual expansion directions similar to Dominion.

Between the two, I would suggest that Dominion has a better design but suffers from lack of flavor and a way too basic path to victory. Thunderstone has better growth space and flavor, but isn't as serious as Dominion and takes longer to play.

Be seeing you!

The Lacuna Expanse

Things I like about this game, and why you should play it:

-it's versatile. You can play it either in any browser, or on your iPhone. A great way to keep in touch with your Empire on the go.

-it's addictive. You'll always find yourself checking your build queue to make sure it's full and optimized.

-it's free. Following the popular microtransaction route, it's a free to play game, unless you want some boosts, to accelerate some actions, etc.

-it's created by a guy from Wisconsin. Can't go wrong with that.

-it's like SimCity in space.

Episode 33

Here and Now: Netrunner, Pandemic, HeroQuest, MAME, Rock Band Endless Setlist, Titan Quest, Blur, Ra, Duels of the Planeswalkers

Terry brings his buddy Ed to join in the show. Ed goes back to the Dungeons & Dragons red box.

Topic: What games would you want on a desert island?
Rules:
Analog - Paper, Pencil, Deck of Cards, Dice
Video Games - Source of Power. No internet.

Listen to how well they follow their rules of survival.



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Episode 32

Here and Now: Call of Duty MW2 Double XP, Pixel Junk Shooter, Sol Survivor, Street Fighter IV, Shiren the Wanderer, Split/Second, Blur, Hacienda, Goa, Race for the Galaxy: The Brink of War

Jon admits to the real winner of their Magic League.

Topic: Game Collection
Jon and Terry talk about coping with all of the games that fill up their personal space.

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Episode 31

Here and Now: Magic: Rise of the Eldrazi, BrettspielWelt: Dominion, Left 4 Dead 2: Bleed Out & Last Gnome on Earth, Through the Ages, EGM, Split/Second Demo, ModNation Racers Demo

Topic: Gaming Dead Zone
Life events can take you from gaming. Jon and Terry notes what can slow down their gaming. They let us know what brings them back into gaming.



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Episode 30

Here and Now: Overlord, Vampire, Heavy Rain, Le Havre, L4D2: The Passing, Iron Kingdoms, Magic: Rise of the Eldrazi, Warstorm

Topic: Games as art?
Roger Ebert released a blog post to declare video games are not art. http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/video_games_can_never_be_art.html
Consoles & Cardboard crew gives their input on whether games on video and cardboard sides can be art.


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Episode 29

Here and Now: Magic Draft, Ticket to Ride, Dominion, Bioshock, Dragon Age: Origins, Flower, Puzzle Quest, Malifaux

Topic: Physical Aspects of Gaming
- Motion control from gaming consoles
- Should miniatures and dice be replaced with a LCD screen?

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Episode 28

Here and Now: Malifaux, Robo Rally, Dominion

Topic: Midwest Gaming Classic
Jon, Terry, and John hang out at Midwest Gaming Classic. Here is a background on what the event had to offer. http://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/home/intro/

Jon Vs. John Pong 2010 Battle


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Episode 27

Here and Now: Imperial 2030, Magic: Worldwake, L4D2: Passing, Warmachine Mark II, God of War Collection, Dungeon Lords, Confrontation, Shatter, Dragon Age: Origins Awakening, Jon's New PC

Topic: 180 Degree Turns
Games we have played that flipped style or direction in either mid-play or after an
expansion/sequel came out that completely changed it.


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Episode 26

Here and Now: Borderlands: The Secret Armory of General Knox DLC, Left 4 Dead 2: The Passing DLC, Magic: Worldwake, Through the Ages, Dragon Age: Origins, Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes, Glyde

This is our one year anniversary as a podcast. Thanks for everyone’s support.

Topic: Location, Location, Location
Where to Game? Gaming locations can vary from a basement, coffee shop, convention hall, etc. Jon and Terry point out what makes a good gaming location. Get your blueprints ready.

Come play Brass online with us at http://brass.orderofthehammer.com/
- Games will be named cnccast.com#[x]
password will be consolescardboard

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Episode 25

Here and Now: Punch Out, Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes, Song of Blades and Heroes, Star Trek Online, Falling, Ticket to Ride Europe

Eric tells us how to play Plants vs Zombies with a green balloon.

Topic: Publishing Your Own Game
Adam Loper guests on the show to talk about his microgames company, Snarling Badger. Adam takes us back to 1993 for the origin of Snarling Badger. If you have been looking to create your own game, here is a blueprint to follow.

Fire & Ice 2010 Convention
Jon has not attended the Fire & Ice. Adam and Eric fill him in with what to expect.

Come play Brass online with us at http://brass.orderofthehammer.com/
- Games will be named cnccast.com#[x]
password will be consolescardboard


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Episode 24

Topic: Worldwake Prerelease
Jon is running solo for this episode. He participated in the Worldwake Prerelease Party at Cavalry Game & Hobby. He gives us a review of the game along with comments from the other players.

Come play Brass online with us at http://brass.orderofthehammer.com/.
- Games will be named cnccast.com#[x]
password will be consolescardboard


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Episode 23

Here and Now: Through the Ages, Portal, Carcassonne: Hunters & Gatherers, Skee-Ball, Civilization: Revolution, Brass Online, Endless Migration, Crush the Castle

Topic: Analog/Digital Crossover
On the show, we bring up some titles we've played and enjoyed that cross over the analog and digital divide. We discuss which games or genres that have not crossover. Were they missed or are they best left alone?

We respond to a listener's email on Origins.

Come play Brass online with us at http://wargamessoc.union.shef.ac.uk/brass/index.php.
- Games will be named cnccast.com#[x]
password will be consolescardboard


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Episode 22

Here and Now: Borderlands, Brass, Arkham Horror:The Black Goat of the Woods, Stone Age, Civilization Rev, Dragon Age: Origins, Warmachine Prime Mk II, Might & Magic:Clash of Heroes, Bausack, Guitar Hero World Tour

Topic: 2010 New Year’s Resolutions
The crew compares their lists to see what changes they want to make their gaming lives better. In a half year they will touch base on how well the resolutions are holding up.

Come play Brass online with us at http://wargamessoc.union.shef.ac.uk/brass/index.php.
- Games will be named cnccast.com#[x]
- password will be consolescardboard


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Episode 21

Here and Now: League of Legends, Eve, Caylus, Stone Age, L4D2, Borderlands, Canabalt, LAN Party, XMas shopping for gamers

Zendikar League Champion - Jon
Next battle will be with Magic: Shards of Alara.

Topic: Being "Naughty" in games.
Is being bad in games good? Is it okay to pretend to be evil in a game? Should game designers make games where you can be more than just the knight in shining armor? How about cheating in a game naughty? Check out the podcast to see if the crew is naughty or nice when it comes to their gaming.

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Episode 20

Here and Now: Black Friday purchases, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead 2, Warmachine Mk II, Stronghold, Endeavor, Dragon Age Journeys, Race for the Galaxy AI, Rock Band 2 Tour completion, Dominion: Seaside

Topic: Graphics vs Gameplay
Does flimsy card stock in a CCG have an impact? Would a miniatures game be as interesting if plain miniature figures are used? If a video game has a 1080p stamp on it, will it make it the best game out there? Tune in to find out where the crew finds the balance between graphics and gameplay.


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Episode 19

Here and Now: League of Legends, Dominion: Seaside, Borderlands,

Brutal Legend, Uncharted 2, and Netflix streaming

Topic: The Continuous Purchase
We were once used to the idea of buying a game once and being done. Expansions galore for stuff like RftG and Dominion, CCGs live and die by whether they expand or not. Digital gaming suffers the same with DLC, subscription fees (MMOs and XBox Live), and micro-transactions. Does the additional content make the cost worth it?

Zendikar League
Gamer Winning Percentage
Jon 1.00
Scott .666
Terry .500


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Casual League Play the Consoles & Cardboard Way

By Eric Jome

What is an Open Challenge Magic League?

Introduction

In ‘cast 18, I mentioned that we’re playing a Magic: The Gathering league using a format we’ve developed, tested, and enjoyed many times. Here’s some of the details of this format for you; it should work for just about any CCG, but it is one of the best ways to enjoy Magic while avoiding the hassles of keeping up with the Joneses or carrying a suitcase of cards.

The Rules

The Open Challenge league format takes its name from the way matches are arranged – players just seek each other out and play. There are no rounds and no assigned games. You just play as many matches as you can manage in the time allotted. This makes for a very easygoing environment, where people can come and go as they please, getting games and playing casually.

The league is usually scheduled for a certain number of weeks assuming players will meet weekly in a designated place at some time to play – say, your LGS one night a week. A good number of weeks is 4 to 6. Over those weeks, each player will establish an average. The average is the number of match wins divided by the number of matches played – in essence, like a batting or bowling average. The player with the best average in the end is the winner. Typically, I provide a gift certificate from the store as a prize in the end.

To make the average meaningful, you’ve got to play enough matches to qualify. A good number is 2 or 3 per week. But, at 2 per week for 6 weeks, that 12 matches… and if someone gets lucky and establishes a really good average in exactly 12 matches, we don’t want them to rest on their laurels. So, we have one additional rule; you may not refuse to play a match against a player with a lower average.

To start in the league, we keep the investment very small. We each buy 5 boosters, perhaps adding 1 each week or every other week. We play 40 card decks, sometimes 60 cards as we get to about 100 cards in total. That’s the only buy in for the league – you could collect an entry fee to pay for a league prize if you like, but it would always be best to keep it modest.

There are a couple extra rules to consider;

1) Players should avoid playing against the same people in the same session (week). It is more fun and more fair to mix it up and play different people. This rule is sometimes broken by mutual agreement of players and organizer to allow people to get more matches.
2) It’s fun to trade, but you don’t want the league prize going to the best trader over the best player. So add a trade rule such as all trades are one for one, same rarity, same set and only 1 trade between pairs of players per session (week) is allowed.

Conclusion

This type of Magic league is fun, easy, leaves plenty of time for other games, cheap, manageable, interesting, and engaging. It takes the game back to its roots and lets you enjoy it in the best way possible… give it a try!

Episode 18

Here and Now: Magic:Zendikar Sealed Deck League, Left 4 Dead 2, Arkham Horror - The King in Yellow Expansion, Endeavor, World of Goo, D&D 3.5, The Beatles: Rock Band

Topic: Hardware Choices for Holiday Season
Are you looking to purchase a console or PC? The CNC crew talk about what hardware and software choices can influence your purchase.

On the Horizon: Dominion: Seaside, Dungeon Lords, Agricola


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Episode 17

Here and Now: Left4Dead:CC, Civ: Rev, Geo-Defense Swarm

Today’s Topic: Local Game Conventions
If you are looking to start your own Con, listen to the sage advice of Adam Loper. He just finished running the successful Oshcon. The Consoles & Cardboard Crew ask Adam how he put Oshcon together.

• When did you get started with Oshcon? How long has the convention been in its current location and form? Has it changed much over the years?
• How much does it cost to run the convention? How much time to prepare? How many people help out?
• How many people attend the convention? What vendors and guests do you get and how do you get them?
• What does the future hold for Oshcon? Do you see a chance to include video games or other media in the future?

Adam’s Con - Oshcon
Adam’s Game Company - Snarling Badger


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